-- the first time that i ever felt the emotion about killing, i was in one of these sort of typical california groups where everybody's, you know, sharing their deep experiences. and the leader of the group asked me -- >> a therapy group? a therapy -- >> a therapy group, yeah. >> were you in therapy? >> well, it wasn't therapy. it was, you know, we were a bunch of hippies. i mean, you know, we were sort of, you know, sharing our deep experiences. you know, i mean, god, it's hard to remember the '70s. but that was part of it. and my wife had said, you know, "this is a good thing. we should go to one of these things." and so i was there. i'm game, you know. and one of the group leaders asked me to imagine telling the mother and sister of somebody i'd killed that i was sorry. >> you mean going to the vietnamese family and saying -- >> yeah. so i started to imagine that. and i fell apart. i mean, i fell apart. i started sobbing. i started -- i mean, i cried for three days. i couldn't stop crying for three days. and then i got it under control. and i shoved it back down again. and it wasn't until t